Month: May 2008

Amen & I AM Questions

First Question

We just finished John 8 in our Sunday morning studies.  One friend told me before the worship service that Jesus is Jehovah, the God of the Old Testament.  He expressed ideas like this post.

My friend told me I get the idea of the Trinity from Constantine and not from the Bible. 

He said there is a clear distinction between Jesus as Jehovah and His Father.  I smiled and agreed on this assertion after my polite disagreement over his first point.

But then I told him that in the Old Testament, there is clear distinction between Father as Jehovah and the divine Servant/Son.

Would you accept this latter biblical proposition?

Second Question

In looking at scripture text, I think amen is an attribute used equally of both Father and Son, but not for anyone else.  Do you? 

Third Question (Just for kicks)

“Verily, verily” – is this expression utilized by anyone other than Jesus Christ in LDS scriptures and commentary writings?

 

Friday Night HI4LDS Tangent Alert!

I would like to hear from one of the wordpress community atheists.

He has dedicated a whole post to someone I like, creationist Ken Ham of AIG.

But the last paragraph in his comment #5 rises to the top for me as the most eye-catching:

I suppose I should also add that I am an ex-Christian. My younger years in the Catholic church, then Fundamental Baptist for about 8 years or so (KJV all the way! lol). Read the Bible cover to cover many times. So, for those who may think I’m speaking out of ignorance, I did “give it a shot.”

In this thread, is there a way that I could hear from the young atheist a synopsis of this 8 year story as a Fundamental Baptist?

I am one of those Fundamental Baptist preachers who uses the KJV.

Is godkillzyou game for this?

____

And his email address: godkillzyou . . . hmmm, this sounds like what God did to me in Romans 6.  It was the best thing that ever happened to me.  The old Todd Wood buried.  And that is only the beginning of my story.

Oh boy, back to the LDS Trinity

Clyde D. Ford, a physician in SLC, sent me a twirlin’ and a whirlin’ with his May 5, 2008, Dialogue paper on alternative trinitarianism.  And it’s 11:17 p.m.  I need to go to bed;  I’ve got a big day tomorrow.

But doesn’t he know “what is the Book of Mormon doctrine of the Trinity?”

After working all the way, page after page, through ancient backgrounds, to early 19th century opinions, and key issues and questions, now, who am I suppose to turn to for an authoritative answer on this vital question?

Mormon Beliefs (accurate?)

Taken from Mormon Beliefs and Doctrines Made Easier (2007) by David J. Ridges:

BEGINNING  In a technical sense, there is no beginning, since we have always existed as intelligence or intelligences–we don’t know what quite what to call it (D&C 93:29).  However, “beginning” often refers to our premortal existence as spirit sons and daughters of our heavenly parents (Job 38:7; D&C 93:21, 23).  It also refers to the initial stages of the earth’s creation (Genesis 1:1).

ELOHIM  As used by members of the Church, this is a name for Heavenly Father.  It is a very sacred name and should be spoken of with reverent care.  The First Presidency taught:  “God the Eternal Father, whom we designate by the exalted-title ‘Elohim,’ is the literal Parent of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and of the spirits of the human race (MFP 5:26).

GOD AS A SPIRIT  Because John 4:24, as given in the Bible, states that “God is a Spirit,” many Christian religions have developed false teachings about the nature of God.  Joseph Smith corrected this verse to read, “For unto such hath God promised his Spirit.  And they who worship him, must worship in spirit and in truth” (JST, John 4:26). (more…)

Marty’s Definition of Mormon

Taken from The Christian World:  A Global History (2007):

Martin Marty writes on page 244 in the glossary,

Mormon  Another name for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, founded in the 1830s by Joseph Smith, who claimed direct divine revelation of a new covenant, one which most other Christians regard as a new tradition far from orthodox Christianity.  It grows rapidly in many parts of the world.

Here is a good question:  Does liberal scholar, Martin Marty, the man with some seventy-five honorary doctorates, think of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints “as a new tradition far from orthodox Christianity”?